PFDs - newsletter

85dragonfly · 11-04-2010, 12:22 AM

Hi Folks - I am responding here to an article by ?Rich A? in the most recent edition of the Trumbull Canoe Trails newsletter, regarding the specific regulations in both PA and Ohio regarding PFDs. I wish to first say that I mean no specific criticism or disrespect to Rich, or anyone else - rather, I wish us all to come to the take-out alive.

I believe that most people do not really understand the point of a PFD. In my experience most folks think that of it as a device for people who are unsure of themselves as swimmers, or think that it is a precaution to be worn when in waters of a Class with which they are unsure of themselves and their abilities. Or at best, something which must be ?at hand? in case the cops come down on ya. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I am a veteran of many years and many thousands of miles of both river and lake paddling. I am both pleased and humbled to say that I have paddled with many of the most experienced and accomplished canoe paddlers in North America, people who are in their way legends in the paddling community, and whom I am honored to call my friends. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM wears a PFD AT ALL TIMES on the water - ANY water - whether that water be a Canadian Lake, a Class VI steep creek, or a backyard pond.

The reason is simple, and is well known ?It floats. You don?t? That says it all. It has NOTHING to do with how good a swimmer you are, or what kind of water you?re paddling. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that a PFD will keep your head above water (and therefore keep you breathing) when you can?t swim - not because you don?t know how, but because conditions will not permit you to swim, or swim effectively. How well can you swim if you?re unconscious? Heart attack, stroke, or a simple fainting spell. How well, or how long, can you swim if the water temp is lower than blood heat (98.6)? Water temps in the 50s will cause enough hypothermia in 5 minutes to render your arms and legs completely useless. I personally know people who have drowned in less time than that in May on Lake Arthur in Moraine State Park. And who were good swimmers. How will you swim with no functioning extremities? How do you swim when the river/creek is stronger than you are? EVERY river and creek IS stronger than you are!

It is easy to recognize the experienced and knowledgeable paddlers at any put-in. They have their PFDs on. It?s mighty cheap insurance. Wear it! ALWAYS!

With respect and concern, Bruce aka 85dragonfly

JPTolson · 11-05-2010, 03:23 PM

TCT fellow paddlers,

I have to agree with Bruce regarding PFDs. I also want to thank Rich for finding the rules of PFD use in both Ohio and PA. Although this may ruffle a few feathers of friends in the club, the PFD issue has troubled me since joining TCT a little over two years ago where using them while paddling on club-sponsored trips seems to be optional.

I've been paddling regularly since 1978 and have belonged to five different canoe/kayak clubs over that time. I also consider myself a fairly decent swimmer and have no fear of falling into water as long as it's not near a dam or into some raging rapids with undercut rocks and strainers. TCT has been the only one of those club where use/correct use of PFDs hasn't been required to take part on paddling trips, regardless of the type of water, flat or white, shallow or deep. Or maybe it is and the rule is no longer enforced.

We all know that we can sometimes get into precarious situations when we don't expect to and that we're always moving from shallow water to deep water to faster moving water to water that might be quite a distance from shore. And we all know that their is never enough time to don a PFD, zip it up, and fasten the buckle if we are not already wearing one in the two to three seconds it takes to flip a canoe or kayak. Wearing a PFD gives us one less thing to think about (staying afloat) when we do flip while we try to figure out how to get to shore and retrieve our boat and paddle, especially in water far from shore, over our heads, or in a fast-moving current. It's also going to aid whoever might be trying to lending us a hand.

(I'm almost done; is everyone tired of the lecture?)

Finally, I think it's important that paddling clubs set an example for good safety practices for others on streams, lakes, and rivers. And I think it's particularly important to set a good example for new club members who may have very little paddling experience. Imagine how tragic and embarrassing it would be if a club member (God forbid) drowned because they were not wearing a PFD. Today's PFDs are far from the uncomfortable "horse collar" variety that I remember using when learning to paddle. And this is just not me spouting off....wearing a PFD is usually near the top of safety recommendations from my experience with paddling clubs and organizations. So I would encourage everyone to give the PFD issue some thought and do some reading on paddling safety.

Have fun, be safe, and see you one the river...

Respectfully,

JP

scout45 · 11-05-2010, 05:24 PM

I like the comments about the need to have your PFD on, the article in the newsletter was place in to answer what the laws are govering the use of pfds on the water, But the club has no bylaws covering the use. there is a meeting after the paddle on newport saturday lets decide if we need to add this to the bylaws.

JPTolson · 11-05-2010, 08:31 PM

I think this issue could become even more important, if, as Ed was saying a few weeks ago, Youngstown State purchases 50 memberships next year for students to go on paddling trips.

jp

BOBK · 11-05-2010, 08:42 PM

Nice to see a good, serious discussion about an important topic.

85dragonfly · 11-08-2010, 10:48 PM

In response to the suggestion of scout45 about inserting a provision in the by-laws regarding the wearing of PFDs...having composed by-laws for at least three non-profit organizations I can say for a fact that the only person who knows what the by-laws actually say IS the person who wrote them. No one else gives a damn (a sentiment with which I actually concur - by-laws mean nothing in Real Life). It is certainly fine and OK to do that, and probably advisable from a number of perspectives, but the simple fact is that it will be up to a Trip Leader to simply say "wear it, or you don't paddle with us. Period." It IS that simple, that easy. Y'all decide.

JPTolson · 11-09-2010, 08:05 PM

TCT,

In light of our continuing discussion on the use of PFDs, I thought the following discussion from an Adirondack club might provide some interesting perspective.
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=13674

I've been googling the issue and there's a fair amount of material on this subject out there.

In the interest of hearing both sides of an argument, it would be useful to hear folks in the club who don't feel that wearing a PDF at all times is a good idea and the reasoning behind their position.

jp

EAR · 11-13-2010, 01:26 AM

The by-laws are not the place to address this issue. We need to update the membership / waiver form. This is the form that everyone signs when renewing or joining the club. This form has not been updated since 1997.The only thing it says now is that you must "observe all watercraft rules and regulations" and that you must have a " Coastguard approved PFD". Rich pointed out the rules in the last news letter. Thanks Rich. It doesn't say that we must wear a PFD. Some want to change this to say we MUST wear a PFD on all TCT runs. And there's the crux of the biscuit! Can we mandate that responsible adults, who may otherwise be following all local regulations,must wear a PFD if it's not required.
I say change it to read something like " must have a Approved PFD and it is strongly suggested you wear it at all times" . Education is the key here.
You have got to give a little wiggle room to people who take personal responsibility for their actions.
This may be an issue that will only be decided by a vote at our next meeting in January. You can post more here, but it will only count if you come to the meeting !!!

BOBK · 11-13-2010, 08:48 AM

Ed, I think the problem with PFD requirement is really already solved. You pretty much covered it all with the following, we are thinking responsible adults, we are aware of the consequences of our actions, and most important we voluntarily sign a waiver exempting the club from liability. I do agree that the club strongly suggest the use of PFD's and that they should be on our chosen craft on club sponsered trips.
On a lighter note, those who do not wish to use their PFD could all pile them in one of the expansive canoes.

burrowsj · 11-14-2010, 10:21 PM

I feel that wearing a PFD should be set to the rules of the water. I think it is in the same category as wearing a wetsuit in cold weather. The responsible thing to do is to wear it, but it should be left up to the individual person.

11-04-2010, 12:22 AM	#1
85dragonfly Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: west Pa Posts: 31 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	PFDs - newsletter Hi Folks - I am responding here to an article by ?Rich A? in the most recent edition of the Trumbull Canoe Trails newsletter, regarding the specific regulations in both PA and Ohio regarding PFDs. I wish to first say that I mean no specific criticism or disrespect to Rich, or anyone else - rather, I wish us all to come to the take-out alive. I believe that most people do not really understand the point of a PFD. In my experience most folks think that of it as a device for people who are unsure of themselves as swimmers, or think that it is a precaution to be worn when in waters of a Class with which they are unsure of themselves and their abilities. Or at best, something which must be ?at hand? in case the cops come down on ya. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am a veteran of many years and many thousands of miles of both river and lake paddling. I am both pleased and humbled to say that I have paddled with many of the most experienced and accomplished canoe paddlers in North America, people who are in their way legends in the paddling community, and whom I am honored to call my friends. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM wears a PFD AT ALL TIMES on the water - ANY water - whether that water be a Canadian Lake, a Class VI steep creek, or a backyard pond. The reason is simple, and is well known ?It floats. You don?t? That says it all. It has NOTHING to do with how good a swimmer you are, or what kind of water you?re paddling. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that a PFD will keep your head above water (and therefore keep you breathing) when you can?t swim - not because you don?t know how, but because conditions will not permit you to swim, or swim effectively. How well can you swim if you?re unconscious? Heart attack, stroke, or a simple fainting spell. How well, or how long, can you swim if the water temp is lower than blood heat (98.6)? Water temps in the 50s will cause enough hypothermia in 5 minutes to render your arms and legs completely useless. I personally know people who have drowned in less time than that in May on Lake Arthur in Moraine State Park. And who were good swimmers. How will you swim with no functioning extremities? How do you swim when the river/creek is stronger than you are? EVERY river and creek IS stronger than you are! It is easy to recognize the experienced and knowledgeable paddlers at any put-in. They have their PFDs on. It?s mighty cheap insurance. Wear it! ALWAYS! With respect and concern, Bruce aka 85dragonfly

11-05-2010, 08:42 PM	#5
BOBK Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 227 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Nice to see a good, serious discussion about an important topic. __________________ BOBK <IIOX> KAYAK - Backwards or forwards, the only way to paddle.

11-08-2010, 10:48 PM	#6
85dragonfly Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: west Pa Posts: 31 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	more preaching In response to the suggestion of scout45 about inserting a provision in the by-laws regarding the wearing of PFDs...having composed by-laws for at least three non-profit organizations I can say for a fact that the only person who knows what the by-laws actually say IS the person who wrote them. No one else gives a damn (a sentiment with which I actually concur - by-laws mean nothing in Real Life). It is certainly fine and OK to do that, and probably advisable from a number of perspectives, but the simple fact is that it will be up to a Trip Leader to simply say "wear it, or you don't paddle with us. Period." It IS that simple, that easy. Y'all decide.

11-13-2010, 01:26 AM	#8
EAR Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Hubbard Ohio Posts: 296 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Membership form The by-laws are not the place to address this issue. We need to update the membership / waiver form. This is the form that everyone signs when renewing or joining the club. This form has not been updated since 1997.The only thing it says now is that you must "observe all watercraft rules and regulations" and that you must have a " Coastguard approved PFD". Rich pointed out the rules in the last news letter. Thanks Rich. It doesn't say that we must wear a PFD. Some want to change this to say we MUST wear a PFD on all TCT runs. And there's the crux of the biscuit! Can we mandate that responsible adults, who may otherwise be following all local regulations,must wear a PFD if it's not required. I say change it to read something like " must have a Approved PFD and it is strongly suggested you wear it at all times" . Education is the key here. You have got to give a little wiggle room to people who take personal responsibility for their actions. This may be an issue that will only be decided by a vote at our next meeting in January. You can post more here, but it will only count if you come to the meeting !!! __________________ Trumbull Canoe Trails. 1975 - 2024, 49 years of canoeing and kayaking. For the people! Last edited by EAR; 11-13-2010 at 01:30 AM.

11-13-2010, 08:48 AM	#9
BOBK Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 227 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	Ed, I think the problem with PFD requirement is really already solved. You pretty much covered it all with the following, we are thinking responsible adults, we are aware of the consequences of our actions, and most important we voluntarily sign a waiver exempting the club from liability. I do agree that the club strongly suggest the use of PFD's and that they should be on our chosen craft on club sponsered trips. On a lighter note, those who do not wish to use their PFD could all pile them in one of the expansive canoes. __________________ BOBK <IIOX> KAYAK - Backwards or forwards, the only way to paddle.

11-05-2010, 03:23 PM	#2
JPTolson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Salem, Ohio Posts: 902 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	TCT fellow paddlers, I have to agree with Bruce regarding PFDs. I also want to thank Rich for finding the rules of PFD use in both Ohio and PA. Although this may ruffle a few feathers of friends in the club, the PFD issue has troubled me since joining TCT a little over two years ago where using them while paddling on club-sponsored trips seems to be optional. I've been paddling regularly since 1978 and have belonged to five different canoe/kayak clubs over that time. I also consider myself a fairly decent swimmer and have no fear of falling into water as long as it's not near a dam or into some raging rapids with undercut rocks and strainers. TCT has been the only one of those club where use/correct use of PFDs hasn't been required to take part on paddling trips, regardless of the type of water, flat or white, shallow or deep. Or maybe it is and the rule is no longer enforced. We all know that we can sometimes get into precarious situations when we don't expect to and that we're always moving from shallow water to deep water to faster moving water to water that might be quite a distance from shore. And we all know that their is never enough time to don a PFD, zip it up, and fasten the buckle if we are not already wearing one in the two to three seconds it takes to flip a canoe or kayak. Wearing a PFD gives us one less thing to think about (staying afloat) when we do flip while we try to figure out how to get to shore and retrieve our boat and paddle, especially in water far from shore, over our heads, or in a fast-moving current. It's also going to aid whoever might be trying to lending us a hand. (I'm almost done; is everyone tired of the lecture?) Finally, I think it's important that paddling clubs set an example for good safety practices for others on streams, lakes, and rivers. And I think it's particularly important to set a good example for new club members who may have very little paddling experience. Imagine how tragic and embarrassing it would be if a club member (God forbid) drowned because they were not wearing a PFD. Today's PFDs are far from the uncomfortable "horse collar" variety that I remember using when learning to paddle. And this is just not me spouting off....wearing a PFD is usually near the top of safety recommendations from my experience with paddling clubs and organizations. So I would encourage everyone to give the PFD issue some thought and do some reading on paddling safety. Have fun, be safe, and see you one the river... Respectfully, JP

11-05-2010, 05:24 PM	#3
scout45 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: negley, ohio Posts: 16 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	I like the comments about the need to have your PFD on, the article in the newsletter was place in to answer what the laws are govering the use of pfds on the water, But the club has no bylaws covering the use. there is a meeting after the paddle on newport saturday lets decide if we need to add this to the bylaws.

11-05-2010, 08:31 PM	#4
JPTolson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Salem, Ohio Posts: 902 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	I think this issue could become even more important, if, as Ed was saying a few weeks ago, Youngstown State purchases 50 memberships next year for students to go on paddling trips. jp

11-09-2010, 08:05 PM	#7
JPTolson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Salem, Ohio Posts: 902 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	TCT, In light of our continuing discussion on the use of PFDs, I thought the following discussion from an Adirondack club might provide some interesting perspective. http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=13674 I've been googling the issue and there's a fair amount of material on this subject out there. In the interest of hearing both sides of an argument, it would be useful to hear folks in the club who don't feel that wearing a PDF at all times is a good idea and the reasoning behind their position. jp

11-14-2010, 10:21 PM	#10
burrowsj Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Columbiana,oh Posts: 141 Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0	I feel that wearing a PFD should be set to the rules of the water. I think it is in the same category as wearing a wetsuit in cold weather. The responsible thing to do is to wear it, but it should be left up to the individual person.