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Old 04-12-2019, 10:05 PM   #1
ramoore
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Default Adding more deck rigging to a recreational kayak

Last year I took a self rescue class with LLbean. It was then that I learned that most rec kayaks don't have enough deck rigging to pull yourself back in the boat. I have two Dagger Zydeco 11 that I love to paddle because of comfort and stability. I want to add to this boat more ' deck cord' to know if I have to get back in I have a enough/strong 'rope' to grab onto. Any suggestions?

toward the end of last year I bought a Necky looksah 14 that has appropriate deck rigging- I am 'learning' to paddle this boat but most of the time I just take my Daggers when me and my girlfriend paddle- Clarion/French Creek/Lake Arthur etc
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Old 04-13-2019, 12:55 AM   #2
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Carry a paddle float for lakes, and always wear and fasten your PFD.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:18 AM   #3
djstone
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Question

I had never heard of a paddle float before. I looked it up on youtube. They make it look easy. Is it one of those things that it just takes practice?
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:41 PM   #4
KenM
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Default Re-entry is HARD!

My experience is... Getting back into your kayak is hard AND exhausting! You need to do a pool (or warm lake) session to find out just how difficult it is.

A few years ago K & C took our 10ft Prodigys to Akron U. pool to practice. There were two (young and fit) certified kayak instructors on lifeguard duty. They watched us TRY to get back in by sliding up over the rear of boat. They both entered the water to show us how it was done. Neither one could do it with our kayaks as the boats sit high in the water AND they have rear bulkheads with large air pockets. They did instruct us on doing an "assisted" re-entry. We each re-entered 3 or 4 times and by then we were pretty well exhausted.

When we first got our Hurricanes we went to Nimisila Res. to try re-entry. We could do it but it took several tiring attempts before we got in. I also made up a paddle float and a stirrup to try for a solo re-entry. Only a paddle float didn't work but with the paddle float and the stirrup I was able to get back in my boat without assistance. It took several attempts... also very tiring. Cheryl, being shorter, did not have much luck.

When TCT did a pool session two years ago we took the Hurricanes and had similar results. Assisted re-entry works but is strenuous. The paddle float and stirrup works (for me) but it takes much (and probably regular) practice.

I am certainly not an expert but have some observations...

__Some extra rigging -might- help to get a grip on your boat but the real problem is that a 28-30" wide Rec kayak is too wide to reach across and get a hold of. Some of those sea-kayakers you see on YouTube have boats that are narrow and are only 3" above the water. My two kayaks float 8-10" high so are hard to reach over. Those people you see have practiced a lot!
__Floating in water over your head with a life vest on makes it hard to swim and greatly hinders your attempt to get back into your boat.
__Even IF you are able to re-enter in warm calm water go try it with wind and waves or wakes and see what happens.
__If water is cold...all bets are off of a re-entry. Grab your boat and paddle and start swimming to shore.
__I highly recommend a pool or lake practice session to find out how hard re-entry really is. It's a valuable learning experience.
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Old 04-14-2019, 02:43 PM   #5
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Thanks for your insight! You gave me a lot to think about. I haven't gone swimming yet but I know if I keep kayaking, it's in my future!
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Old 04-14-2019, 04:08 PM   #6
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I don't paddle a kayak, so I may be somewhat clueless here. The few kayak self-rescue videos I've watched show paddles being shoved under deck cord to provide stability for the boat during re-entry and that makes sense. But I'm having a hard time understanding how deck cord is helpful to pulling oneself back into a kayak via a side entry. I can possibly see how cord might be helpful for a cowboy entry. If someone can point to a video where this is illustrated or explain it, I would like to understand the technique. Thanks.

Last edited by JPTolson; 04-14-2019 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:45 AM   #7
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Default Elastic deck cords & perimeter ropes

As recreational kayakers we would primarily use elastic deck cords to stow some gear for handy access. When using a paddle and float to attempt a deep water re-entry the elastic deck cords are needed to hold the paddle blade in position otherwise it will just slide off the boat. Using elastic deck cords to try and pull yourself back into your boat is futile because they will just stretch when you pull. They might be useful to just grab and hold on to a smooth plastic kayak if capsized. Now... If you were a sea kayaker and intended to paddle across Lake Erie and possibly encounter high wind and big waves you would most likely be outfitted with rope perimeter lines to grab on to if capsized and attempting a re-entry.

A lot of confusing kayak "suggestions" come from the fact that there are different kinds of kayaks used for different kinds of conditions... recreational, whitewater, fishing and sea kayaks. People that tell you what you need for gear or safety rarely take into account what type of boat and conditions you paddle in. They only know what "they" do.

Much of what we need to know about safe paddling and rescue techniques is specific to moving water. -Ken

More than you want to know about deck rigging:

https://paddling.com/learn/deck-lines-rigging/
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:24 PM   #8
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There are only two ways I know of.
The first is what Stan taught me. Go to back of the kayak and shimmy up from the back. Grab the cockpit and shimmy up and then straddle the kayak and slip right in.
It is tiring but works.
The other I have done in a kayak and Canoe on the opposite side of the cock pit tie a rope to a main part of the kayak or canoe. On the other end of rope tie a loop in it.
Then on the side you enter in you will put on foot in the rope loop and then pull your self up by counter balance with your own weight.
Little simpler but tiring as well.
Easier in a canoe
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:30 PM   #9
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Based on the TCT pool session (warm calm water) a couple years ago, some participants managed to do a kayak side self-entry using a strong scissors kick to thrust out of the water while one hand was on the far side combing of the cockpit while keeping their head and body as low as possible after "landing" on the kayak. (To Ken's point, the ability to do this depends on boat dimensions and one's reach.) So I, too, don't see how deck cords would aid in this method of self re-entry, but I am happy to be shown otherwise. Deck perimeter cording, however, seems like a very good idea to be able to grab and hold onto the kayak while the boater is in the water.

Good discussion here about safety/self rescue.

Last edited by JPTolson; 04-16-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:04 AM   #10
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Thanks guys!! yeah I meant deck lines... and this is the technique we practiced.
https://paddling.com/learn/heel-hook...sisted-rescue/

Love all the input and experiences....

Looking forward to paddling Little Beaver Creek with the group!!

All yeah..... and I need ALOT of practice with self rescue!!!

I have never paddled with out a PFD on, zipped, and tightened down.
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